Summary

Sam Rosati, co-founder of Premier Solutions Group, discusses his experience in acquiring and growing fence companies in the sunbelt region. He highlights the importance of focusing on commercial fencing, which offers larger projects and a competitive advantage. Sam also emphasizes the significance of building a strong team and delegating tasks to ensure the success of the business. He shares insights on the acquisition process, including the need for capital and the importance of understanding the seller's objectives. Sam discusses the challenges and lessons learned in scaling the business and the importance of effective communication and transparency within the team.

Takeaways

Focus on commercial fencing to benefit from larger projects and create a competitive advantage.
Build a strong team and delegate tasks to ensure the success of the business.
Understand the seller's objectives and tailor the acquisition process accordingly.
Effective communication and transparency are crucial for the growth and success of the business.

 

 Listen (audio only) to the Interview:

Transcript:

Jon (00:01.215)
Welcome to Top &A Entrepreneurs. Today my guest is Sam Razzotti. Sam, how's it going?

Sam Rosati (00:07.664)
It's great, John. Good to hear from you, man.

Jon (00:10.561)
I got some feedback here, hold on one second. I didn't notice that before.

Jon (00:19.786)
Can you hear me?

Sam Rosati (00:24.926)
I have you loud and clear.

Jon (00:26.197)
All right. All right. All right. So we'll just go forward. I'll cut that out later. All right. So, I just saw your press release, buying a fence company in my side of the country, Brown and Biddle. Fantastic. And, and you know, your little map said we're going to kind of focus on, Southeastern countries, Southeastern acquisitions, but you're all the way over here. What's going on?

Sam Rosati (00:40.968)
That's right.

Sam Rosati (00:52.336)
I know we're taking a brave foray out West to Phoenix, Arizona, but you know, the fence company is, it started as a Florida and a Southeast. You know, it's, it's gotten quite a bit bigger and it's taken a little bit of time, but we finally got comfortable going West of the Mississippi and we're excited about it.

Jon (01:14.197)
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's not going to be a lot of difference as far as the heat coming from Florida, but it's dry heat. Very dry.

Sam Rosati (01:23.454)
So the people who live in Arizona say that. And then you get there and it's 115 degrees and it burns your skin when you walk outside. I'm not thinking it's any better.

Jon (01:34.263)
it is, it's brutal, man. If we didn't have AC here, we would be just horrible. It'd be miserable. That's why, that's why HVAC companies are so, their multiples are so high out here because you just can't go without HVAC here.

Sam Rosati (01:41.918)
No kidding,

Sam Rosati (01:51.454)
It's a life or death,

Jon (01:52.661)
Cybernetics. It's a need. Yeah. So, hey, I know you joined SMB Law a couple years ago. You're working with Eric, working with Kevin Henderson. All praise to Kevin Henderson.

Sam Rosati (02:04.254)
Yes, that's right. We put that firm together. God, it's been two and a half years. I can't believe that already.

Jon (02:13.483)
Yeah. And did you guys know each other before then or what was it all?

Sam Rosati (02:16.934)
No, no, did not. Kevin and Eric knew each other, but I was the new guy to the club. So they called me up and you know, they were looking for somebody kind of already in the game, so to speak. And I still have a law degree and was able to be a partner at a law firm. You know, obviously you need to have that background. So that was it. From there, we, kept running.

Jon (02:38.881)
So SMB Law, small business, are you guys now big, a big law firm now? I mean, you guys are a of traffic on, lot of ex -traffic.

Sam Rosati (02:50.024)
John, don't offend me man, come on. No!

Sam Rosati (02:56.05)
So it's, let's call it this way, like we've grown a lot. We've grown our lawyer count, which our lawyers are the heart of the business. We've grown our support staff, but we're still a small company, right? We're not a big law firm. You know, there's a lot of traffic on Twitter or X because that's where our community is. You know, they're of course, they're on LinkedIn and other places, but Twitter is where a lot of us still go to share and meet and all of those things.

Jon (02:59.775)
Yeah.

Jon (03:25.547)
Yeah, it's interesting. It's news. I don't have to go through ABC, Fox, NBC, and anything else. I can get what happens around the world instantaneously.

Sam Rosati (03:37.614)
And you can get great memes.

Jon (03:39.349)
Yeah, and you can great Kevin Henderson memes.

Sam Rosati (03:43.07)
Kevin's the best by the way. Kevin is the most interesting man.

Jon (03:47.605)
Yeah. So I got to ask you about a couple Premier Solutions Group. I did a little research on this and your relationship with Chris Clyforth and Wes Tolbert. How did that come together? I mean, you leave a big law firm, you go to SMB Law. Where did this start? go, let's, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this with a holding company too.

Sam Rosati (04:12.894)
Yeah, well, it started a while ago. So, man, what are we in 2024? Let's call it like four or five years ago. I had already bought in a couple small businesses and was in the game. So I finally was starting to realize what it was like to own and run a small company. And Chris and I had met through one of those prior businesses and he was transitioning out of being a CEO of a fencing supply business, not an installer, but a

Call it a distributor, a supplier of fencing hardware. And so we, we talked about, you know, mutual interest and enjoyment and investing in small companies. And then somehow the topic of fence came up and long, long story short, said, you know what, we both want to go pursue the commercial fence installation segment and let's go do that together.

And it took us a year. It took us a year until we found what is the start of PSG perimeter solutions group. And that was West Florida fence, the platform company. And, Wes was the CEO of West Florida fence and wanted to partner with a group to go build that business around the Southeast. And that was three years ago. We started the platform by.

acquiring West Florida Fence and partnering with Wes. And Wes has a partner at the time named Rob and we now have a CFO and now there's a big team involved in growing the fence business around the country.

Jon (05:50.881)
Yeah, that's amazing. So this West Florida Fence Company bought in 2021. What did that, this is what gets people stumbled. You know, like where do I start? Was this a small enough business where I could just go get an SBA loan at the time? 2021, 6 % interest rates, that's fantastic. Or was it a mid -market and I looked to Chris.

Sam Rosati (06:12.403)
Yeah.

Jon (06:16.769)
Clife off I went to his LinkedIn page. He looks like he was in private equity for 13 years or more running a CEO. So he's the money guy Looks like it or What that was and so what did that kind of first acquisition look like?

Sam Rosati (06:32.83)
Sure. Well, look, so I can't share all the details, but what I can say for sure is the West Florida fence was too big to buy with an SBA loan. So it's, it was still not a big company, but it was bigger than you, you can do with an SBA loan. And that was our intention, right? Like our intention wasn't to go use an SBA loan to finance 90 % of the acquisition with debt.

Jon (06:42.241)
Yeah, mid -market. All right.

Sam Rosati (06:59.902)
that's not, that was never our strategy. And to be clear, I've done that before when I bought smaller businesses right after being at, at a law firm. So I think I don't want to, you know, say something and, and teach another, cause I do teach how to buy a small company using an SBA loan. But I think for a lot of people, the SBA loan by a smaller business is the best first foray into entrepreneurship through acquisition.

The fence company for me and Chris anyway, was sort of that next evolution for us, which is buying something a little bit bigger and now growing it organically and through further acquisitions.

Jon (07:41.131)
So that was your first company. It goes into an LLC or something in your old company. Now, did he was a, was he a, I'm the money guy. I'm going to go find the equity or did he bring in his own? You guys brought your own or, did you go raise it from a bigger investors accredited institutional?

Sam Rosati (08:00.466)
Yeah, again, you know, I've got to keep, yeah, the details confidential, but we, you know, I would not say Chris is the money guy and I was the deal guy. We were partners in doing sort of everything together. So we went out and raised equity from various people. We raised some debt from a bank and you know, we partnered with, with West Florida fence and.

Jon (08:02.177)
No, specific.

Sam Rosati (08:27.408)
and Wes and Rob and that transaction. So it is a bigger, bigger purchase price than you can do with an SBA loan, but it didn't require, you know, these big fancy institutions to finance it at that first stage.

Jon (08:36.715)
Yeah, yeah.

Jon (08:44.491)
Yeah. And Wes was the kind of the operations guy. He was running the business first or yeah.

Sam Rosati (08:52.862)
Correct, he was and he still is. Correct.

Jon (08:55.167)
Yeah. And he, and these subsequent acquisitions, Sterling, C and C and Brown and Biddle. He does he, he's the operational guy on those two or do they, keep those people in place that are there.

Sam Rosati (09:09.502)
So Wes is the president and CEO of the entire platform and now it's a much bigger business. He also obviously oversees what's going on in Florida and here in Tampa, but we now have partners around the country. So as you mentioned, we partnered with two folks in Atlanta on CNC and

Jon (09:14.453)
Yeah.

Sam Rosati (09:35.73)
They continue to run that operation today. They were doing a great job and they were wanting to stay on and continue building that business. So they are and same goes in Phoenix.

Jon (09:47.659)
So these two additional acquisitions, Sterling Enterprise, CNC, and Lady Fence, were those on market or off market deals?

Sam Rosati (09:57.662)
They were all on market. So yeah, they were all on market, brokered opportunities. so yeah, mean, you know, in a way I again try to teach all these things and other than the SBA loan piece in this case, everything we bought in is through brokers.

Jon (10:14.987)
Yeah. Or investment bankers or something. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Rosati (10:19.452)
Yeah, I mean those were the same thing at the end of the day. They're just sort of different levels of sophistication.

Jon (10:30.721)
When, when you look at the economics of the West Florida fence, well, what do you guys like about the fencing business? I mean, doesn't it rely on a trends of construction, which there's 10 year cycles.

Sam Rosati (10:47.634)
Yeah, it does. No doubt. like there are things that make it not perfect. What we like about it, and maybe we can clarify a little bit is we are in the fencing business, but we're in the commercial side. we very few of our customers are homeowners. So we are mostly a commercial focused fence company. And, and so what that means is, you know, the, the projects are bigger, more dollars. It also means they're more technical.

they require things like oftentimes bonding or more paperwork or pre -qualification or some kind of other specialty skilled labor. So all of those things, what's nice is that it creates a little bit of a moat, right? It's a competitive advantage if you can do those things well, because not every fence installer can do them well. And that makes it easier to grow organically because

it will lead to repeating revenue from customers. that's one thing we like. We're also not in the material sales business. We are focused on installation. And so again, it's technical hard work and it gives you a chance to create a moat. And from there, good things happen. But yes, of course, right? It's mostly based on

construction projects although a lot of our revenue at this point is not purely construction related.

Jon (12:17.676)
Yeah, in Tucson there's Baker Fence Company and that's usually all I see is Baker. So there's almost a monopoly of fence companies. Yeah.

Sam Rosati (12:23.175)
Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're still competitors, but yeah, they're brands tend to do really well if they've been around a long, long time.

Jon (12:35.061)
Yeah. What are the economics you like about that? It's like a rental business.

Sam Rosati (12:43.186)
that there's a portion of our business that does fence rental. So you've probably seen fence rental two different places. Most people have seen it. One is on a construction site when there's, for example, a building being built or renovated, there is fence around the construction site and it is typically not permanent fence. And so by definition, we, we rent it to the customer.

Usually before then installing the permanent fence after the construction project is done. So we do a lot of temporary fence and then the other the other application is in like for example events think road race, know like a marathon or a parade Temp fence will be stood up and then tore down before and right after the event and so we do that too

Jon (13:36.737)
Yeah. What, do you like about the economics of this, of the, of, of fencing business? mean, it sounds like, Chris was in that business. Very strong background of understanding what the margins are. And when you look at a business to purchase on market, like, what are you looking for red flags? Because a lot of the times, you know, nine out of 10 businesses are dismissed because of the red flag. So what kind of.

Sam Rosati (14:06.162)
Yeah. I mean, we have a long list of things we look for, right? But maybe to keep it simple, what we're looking for is we're looking for a team that is energized to keep growing a business because a lot of fence companies that have been around a long, long time don't have that energy, that enthusiasm for growth. So we look for that and we look for a customer base that tends to

purchase from a target company over and over again. That repeating revenue over time is really important.

Jon (14:44.673)
Is there a number associated with that? Like 50 % reoccurring, 80 % reoccurring, or what is the fence industry that you like to see?

Sam Rosati (14:52.766)
I don't know what the fence industry is, but we kind of have a sense for how much we like to see when we look at a company. And I'll probably hold the secret sauce behind a little bit. you know, we, so we like to see good end markets too. not, not all commercial projects are created equal, right? A multifamily construction fence versus, you know, temporary, sorry, we're talking end markets versus hospitals, governments, schools.

Jon (14:57.472)
Yeah.

Sam Rosati (15:22.866)
you we like to see some diversity in end markets too so there's lots of things we look at and you know none of this is rocket science

Jon (15:30.891)
Yeah. And the Phoenix market is a growing market. They just keep building out and out and out. You got to like that.

Sam Rosati (15:39.55)
Yeah, love it. And it's a good market too, because we can install Fenty year round, although the summer is nasty. And, you know, there's things going on in development in Arizona that are crazy.

Jon (15:53.931)
Yeah. Yeah. Intel plants, all that stuff. What kind of questions do you ask the existing management to kind of decide that they have the energy to run it themselves and to grow it themselves? What is that? What are you looking for?

Sam Rosati (16:10.622)
I mean, it's usually a conversation, right? I mean, I always try to really understand why a seller is selling. And I know you referred to a management team. In a lot of cases, we're talking about a seller or a seller and two sellers, maybe a wife and a husband running a business. It's really all about like, what are they trying to achieve? Are they 45 and they're

really just trying to take some cash off the table to secure their financial future, but at the end of the day, like they have the energy to go for 10 more years, or are they really close to retirement? And ultimately, like their objective is to be retired. And then we really need to go figure out who can stand up for them to get them to retirement. So I think maybe a lot of folks try to, you

we're trying to listen to what they want and not try to fit them into our mold.

Jon (17:14.507)
Yeah. Let me ask you about this acquisition, the start. You had this hypothesis. It's that's where you start. It's like these, this is what we're going to buy. This is what we expect, but now we made our first acquisition, which is West Florida fence, then sterling, then CNC and lady fence. Now you have a thesis. Some things work, some things didn't kind of have a what, what, what that looked like and share some stories about that.

Sam Rosati (17:31.624)
Right.

Sam Rosati (17:43.452)
Yeah. So, I mean, we, definitely had a thesis and the thesis was around, you know, geography number one, which is to stay in the sunbelt, which has been, you know, generally, experiencing demographic tailwinds. And that leads to construction and other fencing applications that make it easier to win. And we had a thesis around.

You know, lot of fencing businesses have been around a long time and are run by people who have also been around a long time. And it's sort of a mini version of the silver tsunami. So maybe we could be a provider of liquidity to them. So we had a lot of that thesis out there. We weren't sure if we were right. One way we were wrong is we thought a lot of the company owners of fencing, of fencing businesses.

would be older folks near to retirement that would want to be, you know, quickly transitioning into retirement. We're finding that's not the case. There are a lot of owners of fencing companies that are fairly young and what they actually desire is not to hand the keys and run away, but to partner with a bigger company like us, PSG, and let us support them to take things off their plate that they don't like to do.

Maybe they don't like running payroll. Maybe they don't like worrying about billing and chasing customers to pay. Maybe they don't like insurance and annual renewals and health insurance and all of this administrative stuff is taxing. And a lot of fencing company owners got into it because they like fence. They bidding jobs and selling and feeling that win. And maybe that's what they want to do more of.

and they're so caught up in the administrative burdens of running a small company, they're not doing enough of that. So that's actually more of what we found than just a bunch of near retirement owners that want to eject.

Jon (19:50.123)
you take all of that? mean, are you putting all that admin stuff that the 401k the insurance, the payroll, are you bringing that in and doing all that yourself? And that's not something you do. It's but it's something you could find a group to do, right?

Sam Rosati (20:00.882)
Now, we're -

Sam Rosati (20:05.938)
Yeah, so PSG does a lot of that at each business, each operating business. We're not in the game of trying to like take all of that effort and put it into a platform or like take it to the HQ because a lot of this stuff like health insurance or you know, you can imagine it applies to so many things. It's a state to state and it needs to be handled locally.

Jon (20:27.379)
It's state to state. It's state. It's different. Yeah.

Sam Rosati (20:34.024)
But that doesn't mean we can't from the HQ support the work involved in putting in the insurance program and the benefits and all of that stuff. So that's the approach we take is we're not trying to centralize everything. We're trying to put people at the HQ who can support that function across all the businesses.

Jon (20:53.749)
Yeah. I got a question about cross -pollinization of ideas. Now, I've got a buddy in the private equity world, he's done a couple of billion dollars in the roll -ups. And when he'd buy an HVAC company over here that had better margins and an HVAC company, new acquisition, go, look, man, we could take some of these ideas over here. Has that worked, these cross -pollinization of ideas? And has it ever not worked? I go, whoa, that didn't work. Because it's regional. Yeah.

Sam Rosati (21:21.074)
Yeah, it does. Yeah. And remember there are sometimes no good answers for why margins are better here or there. So, you know, but we're always learning. so like in, as you can imagine in Arizona and in Florida, there's a lot of difference, like even in the type of material that goes into the fence that they install around Arizona is different than in Florida. mean, we're very humid. It's very dry there.

So you can imagine we've learned a ton, right? We've learned that a lot of our distribution channels, our material suppliers have different pricing. So it's interesting to learn why labor's different. Some States for whatever reason are more inclined to have 10 99 sub installers versus W2. And so every time we go look at a business in a different state, we're learning new stuff about the way the fence business operates in that state.

Jon (22:19.765)
Yeah. So there's different fences in Arizona than there is in Florida because of humidity. I could see that. We just don't have the salt erosion here. Do you, when you go to your supplier, are you getting better margins at buying as a group now? And that goes across the board to all your holding companies?

Sam Rosati (22:30.078)
Exactly.

Sam Rosati (22:42.364)
Yeah, we actually haven't again, like we're still new, right? We're only three years into this and you know, we've been in growth mode. So we haven't actually been able to get to a point where we have made a lot of progress on that, but it sounds like a great idea. Yeah.

Jon (22:47.519)
Yeah.

Jon (23:02.645)
Yeah. So tell me a little bit about when you go into there, like when red flags start coming up and the new acquisitions, what do you guys do when you see those?

Sam Rosati (23:16.961)
before or after.

Jon (23:17.877)
Well, there's before you can identify them and you could either mitigate that risk or understand it's there. But there's red flags that always come up after that you didn't see. Yeah.

Sam Rosati (23:29.788)
Of course, of course. Look, like we're just, we try to do our best to be very communicative with the team that's running the business. We're always trying to be on the road in person. Like most problems, especially if you're a new business owner, they seem worse than they are when you've gotten into things. So like we've seen a lot of problems happen and you know, this is, I guess it's probably kind of feeling like generic advice, but like,

We tend not to overreact and we try to get on a plane, get face to face and see what the issue is and hopefully nothing is fatal. Nothing has been so far. I don't know. That's a vague answer. I don't even like that answer I gave.

Jon (24:12.865)
Yeah. do you, how do you move, how often do you fly around to these, the Phoenix now and the two in Atlanta and the one in Florida? How do you, how often do you get around to these?

Sam Rosati (24:26.891)
I'd like to say I try to do once a month at every one.

Jon (24:32.126)
And is that is like Wes and Chris do the same thing or they're kind of different? Yeah.

Sam Rosati (24:36.668)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we were all on the road a fair bit, which is new to us, right? You know, two years ago, it was just a Florida operation and now we're in multiple states. So we're definitely on more planes than we used to be, but that's fine. We signed up for it.

Jon (24:41.995)
Yeah.

Jon (24:54.079)
Yeah. So what's the end goal of this? Are you going up the private equity pyramid here to maybe turn the capital at five years at a bigger multiple expansion?

Sam Rosati (25:05.832)
That's a good question. mean, I'll tell you, we're not in a rush. have none of our financing, like we're not a private equity fund. So there is no timeline or deadline where we have to return anybody's capital. We're in this to build a big business. So we're going to keep running and I'm sure one day we'll ultimately, you know, either hand the keys or partner with a group. But for now we're going to keep building. We're looking at another acquisition now, so we're going to keep building.

Jon (25:08.426)
Yeah.

Jon (25:33.217)
Yeah. Are these all on market kind of deals? You're just waiting for on market company or are you actually going out and doing, you know, 3000 fence companies and let's do some mailers. Let's just do some emails and yeah.

Sam Rosati (25:42.738)
We do both.

Yeah, yeah, we do both. mean, that's a, you know, it's not a secret, but for people who are interested in buying a company, what they might not realize is once you're in the game and you're in the industry, like you get so many more opportunities that are off market because you're just another player in the game and you start meeting other owners and it's, it becomes easier. So yeah, we do direct and through brokers now.

Jon (26:11.893)
Yeah, that's, do know Brian beers over the minus guy? Yeah. Yeah. He on Twitter. Yeah. He, talks about that. He goes, as soon as you start going to these trade shows for minus, like they're all coming up to you. Hey, I'd be interested in selling mine. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Rosati (26:16.38)
Yeah, on Twitter I do.

Sam Rosati (26:27.612)
Yeah, of course. And it's great, right? Because then you don't have to wait like for brokers to bring opportunities. It's not to say they're easier. you know, it's not always easier direct either.

Jon (26:36.383)
Yeah.

Yeah. Do you have a man, this is not private equity money. So there's no mandatory IRR on this. Is there a mandate like two a year, three a year, one a year, or just good deals? We only gonna digest good deals.

Sam Rosati (26:58.448)
We have an idea of what we want to which means we want to have good fencing operations, like the best brand names and the best markets around the sunbelt. That's always been our intention. It's just taken us a little while. So yeah, no, we don't have any like, you know, have to get two acquisitions done a year target. None of that.

Jon (27:23.253)
Hey, so I want to go all to pursuant capital. That's something else you're doing. Is that for the SMB buyers to help them raise the down payment? I know that was a website, but what is it now?

Sam Rosati (27:36.434)
Yeah. So, I mean, you can think of it as like a management company. It does a lot of sourcing for opportunities. so like we're out there always looking at things to acquire. Maybe it's, you know, an, a new industry, a platform and a new industry we've never heard of, or maybe it's making investments in other searchers, you know, an SMB buyer.

needs to raise $400 ,000 to buy a company. Well, you know, we want to invest in opportunities like that, but no, Pursuant does not raise money for anybody else. Like that's my own vehicle. And look, like it does the boot camp too, right? Like it ultimately started teaching searchers how to buy a small company three years ago. And so, you know, we teach through that vehicle too.

Jon (28:17.375)
That's your on, okay.

Jon (28:31.905)
Yeah. I want to jump back to, the, the premier solutions group. How do you guys handle friction or arguments or, know, there's always, whether it's guys, women, whatever it, there's always egos involved in this. And sometime you step on somebody's toes. What kind of constitutionally do you have in place to say, this is how we will solve this problem. If we, this occurs.

Sam Rosati (29:02.46)
I don't know. mean, so far we haven't had to deal with a lot of conflict. think we try to just be very transparent. We talk a ton. We meet a ton. We text every day. So I, you know, I don't think we have like a constitution around how we're going to resolve issues. We just try to be very, very communicative.

Jon (29:25.953)
Yeah. And what have you learned about moving up the ladder versus going to SMB? I mean, you leapfrogged. You know, they used to say in real estate, you know, it's the same amount of paperwork to do on a $300 ,000 deal as a $1 million deal. And it's actually less work. And a bigger paycheck. Yeah.

Sam Rosati (29:46.044)
Yeah, and I actually, I don't disagree at all. mean, it is, you know, when you get, when a business gets a lot bigger, there's more to wrap your arms around. So it's overwhelming, right? mean, very simply, we used to be a Florida operation and now we're Florida, Georgia, Arizona. It's way more moving parts and more things to keep your arms around. That being said, why I agree with what the original premise was,

It can feel easier if you have a great team. And I now I understand, like I used to hear that and not get it. And now I know when you get bigger, so long as you can afford and recruit and retain great people, great leaders of every kind, it does get easier because then things grow and improve without you having to be the point person for everything.

Jon (30:18.294)
Yeah.

Sam Rosati (30:43.292)
And then it's okay not to feel like we have to have our arms around every little thing in the business because ultimately somebody does and that somebody is highly skilled and somebody we can trust. So it is all, especially in SMB, is all about people, people, people.

Jon (30:59.243)
Yeah. When, if you were to say, somebody on the side, goes, I want to do what you're doing, Sam, and buy, you know, mobility retail manufacturers for the upcoming baby boomers. And I want to kind of do a roll up of that. What are they, but I am a great at raising money or I'm great at operations. I'm great at, you know, finding acquisitions. What do you think is needed for a great team to synchronize?

Sam Rosati (31:28.316)
Yeah, I mean, that's why I've been a big fan of like partnered searches, you know, when two people come together to acquire a company because I, it's generally the case that a lot of us are not good at everything. We have our lanes where we're really good. Maybe some of us are really good at accounting and finance and capital raise and transaction. Maybe some of us are really good at people managing.

managing everyone. Maybe some of us are good at sales. And so I'm a big fan of that divide and conquer approach so that every one of us can stay in our lane of the things we're really good at. And what is really hard about buying a small company is a lot of times the owner, the searcher who buys a company has to be everything. Chief cook and bottle washer. They have to

do the accounting and understand it. have to do the recruiting and people management. They have to be the sales person and those are really different skill sets that a lot of times have to be done by one person, the searcher. That's what makes buying a small company hard if that dynamic is at play.

Jon (32:45.259)
I gotta, is there any regret like that you did something one way and you go, I regret doing that way. You made it just a boneheaded move and we all do them. I mean, I mean, I've had to shut one of my businesses down after requiring it. So I know, and I almost killed the other one because I forgot to, I didn't forget. I just didn't heed the warnings from Google that they were moving from desktop to mobile on the paper.

Sam Rosati (32:55.582)
Ha ha ha!

Jon (33:14.005)
paper click which destroyed my traffic. didn't need the warnings. Like we all make those kind of things but.

Sam Rosati (33:20.456)
Yeah, I gotta tell you, feel like even though, even though feels like I've made every mistake known to humankind, I know I'll make another one. So like that's just part of the game. God, like there, that is what we're in. Like SMB buying is all about surviving the punches that you endure day after day after day. I've probably made more mistakes

personally around not wanting to outsource or delegate. I've always had this thing around needing to understand whatever the function is. You know, early on when, when I was operating in a business, I wanted to do it all. I wanted to do the accounting, do the bookkeeping, not outsource it. And I probably made a lot of mistakes around not getting more help. And that caused me to be overwhelmed and

have too much on my plate. we all sort of repeat our mistakes over and over again. So I know people who have bought small companies, they over delegate and they need to get in the weeds and they need to know the details. So it's very personal, I think.

Jon (34:36.011)
Yeah, I think I'm more like you in that. What tools do you use to kind of help yourself to push for delegation? Because not only sometimes it's because I'm just curious, but I don't have faith in somebody else doing it like I'd want to do it.

Sam Rosati (34:55.396)
man, well I think I've got reminders from battle scars around that so it's easier to remind myself now. It's also a full calendar, right? So there's not a ton of time anymore to be able to say, yeah, I've got all day tomorrow to figure that out. Well, I don't. I also have three kids. So, you know, there's just practical reality.

Jon (34:59.465)
huh.

Jon (35:12.523)
Yeah. Is that it though? it like, it's like, how does Elon Musk send three rockets up a month and run Tesla and he has the same amount of hours in a day as you and I do.

Sam Rosati (35:28.402)
Well I don't know if Elon Musk is sending rockets up or if SpaceX is sending rockets up. And I would guess like at the end of the day, the buck might stop with Elon but I would not imagine he has that much involvement in rockets going into the sky. So good on him, he's built great teams that do those things while he's tweeting and doing whatever he does.

Jon (35:32.859)
It's SpaceX, right? It's the delegation. Yeah.

Jon (35:54.901)
Yeah. And let's go sue Garms. It's like, where does he get the time?

Sam Rosati (35:59.795)
Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know man, it's good stuff though.

Jon (36:04.641)
Yeah, well Sam man, I really appreciate the time you spent with me I appreciate that there's a couple good old no nuggets in there and I I Hope for this success if you need any introduction to Baker fence. They're here in Tucson Yeah

Sam Rosati (36:12.68)
Same John.

Sam Rosati (36:20.958)
I would love that. I am in Arizona once a month, so please. Thanks for having me, John. It was fun.

Jon (36:26.699)
Yeah. Take care, man. Thank you. All right, let me.