The 7 Acquisitions That Made Antonio and Jason Batallan RICH!

 Summary

In this conversation, Jon Stoddard interviews Jason and Antonio Batallan, Cuban American entrepreneurs who have successfully navigated the world of mergers and acquisitions in the landscaping and facilities maintenance industries. They discuss their journey from real estate to acquiring multiple businesses, the challenges of scaling operations, the importance of mentorship, and their future goals for expansion. The Batallan brothers emphasize the significance of strategic planning, learning from others, and maintaining a passion for their work while balancing personal and professional commitments. In this conversation, Jon Stoddard discusses the intricacies of business valuation, seller motivation, and the importance of mentorship in entrepreneurship. He emphasizes the need for sellers to understand the true value of their businesses, the significance of building a strong team, and the balance between acquiring new businesses and integrating them effectively. The discussion also highlights the impact of mentorship on personal and professional growth, particularly through the influence of figures like Dan Peña.

Takeaways

Acquiring businesses can provide new revenue streams.
Mentorship is crucial for growth and learning.
Scaling a business presents unique challenges.
Work-life balance is a matter of choices.
Strategic acquisitions can lead to significant growth.
Building relationships with brokers is essential.
Diversification can enhance business stability.
Understanding cash flow is critical for operations.
Maintaining company culture is important during acquisitions.
Future planning is necessary for sustained success. Business owners often misjudge the value of their companies based on personal needs.
A successful business should be able to operate independently of its owner.
Understanding market dynamics is crucial for both buyers and sellers.
Building a strong team is essential for sustaining business growth.
Mentorship can significantly enhance entrepreneurial skills and confidence.
The integration of acquired businesses requires careful planning and execution.
Economic cycles can influence business valuations and seller motivations.
Effective communication and shared goals are vital in partnerships.
A strong foundation in values and work ethic is key to success.
Balancing acquisition with integration is critical to avoid overwhelming the business.

 Watch the  Interview:

Transcript:

Jon Stoddard (00:00.194)
Welcome to top &A entrepreneurs. Today I have Jason Batallion and Antonio Batallion. Cuban Americans, and I take it that Batallion means battle, right? Well, batalla means battle in Spanish. Batallion is just a name, but it's close. Cool. Well, they've got a company. have its property, property works over a hundred employees.

Their last acquisition they just did in 2021 was for $8.5 million, which was Painters on Demand. And we're gonna talk about that a little bit. Let's talk about how you guys got started. It looks like you acquired Perry's Landscaping in 2009 for $350, excuse me, $350,000. And thank you for sharing all this on your website too. That's great.

So how did this start guys? What did you, what were you doing before Perry's landscaping and what was the decision to buy Perry's landscaping? You want to speak to that Jason? You want me to speak? So prior to that acquisition, we were in the real estate space. We still are in that space. mean, multi-family rentals.

We stare in that space. We love that space. We were primarily in that space and servicing and managing and maintaining our own properties. About 2007, you could kind of see the writing on the walls. was, you know, there was going to be a slowdown. Things didn't make sense, et cetera. And 2008 came, you know, there was a big hit. So we decided since we were already.

servicing and maintaining a lot of our own properties, we decided to try and purchase a company and start doing that for other people. Yeah. And that was basically just a test run with Perry's that and that was a commercial lawn maintenance company. And that's what we did with them. And that was, did you guys, were they a service provider for your properties? No, actually,

Jon Stoddard (02:25.133)
They came through a broker that we had met probably six months prior and told them that we were looking at some ancillary things that went together with what we were doing, explained what we already did, et cetera. And so he was looking for stuff and sending us different opportunities and that came through there. Yeah. Was it profitable, a company? It was.

Yeah. How did you guys pay for that? Was it, you know, some equity down, debt seller financing? What did the capital stack look like? The cap stack on that was, it wasn't a large acquisition. As you mentioned, it was small down payment, some small debt and some, seller financing as well. Yeah. Is that person still with the company or did they leave?

No, that person was on their way out. They were retiring. They hung out for a little bit, not too long. He was an older gentleman and he was retiring. So yeah. Is the footprint from that Perry's landscaping still kind of the core of your business of the landscaping business? What'd you say? No, not at all. Completely changed. Move the other direction. So you went to the next thing was nautical creations acquired in 2010.

That was just equipment and infrastructure purchase. What was that like a distress sale, bankruptcy, something like that? Kind of was a guy. was a guy that we knew who was a friend that tried to do, you know, have his own company and struggled a bit and, and, decided that he wanted to join forces with us instead of continue to do it on his own.

Yeah. So we acquired his company, his equipment, and he came to work with us for eight years. Great guy. Yeah. So how did you guys pay for that? Was it like just cash out, like an asset valuation? Yeah, basically that we just took on some payments. OK, we gave him a little bit of money and took on some payments. In that case, we just assumed assumed his debt. interesting.

Jon Stoddard (04:45.729)
Was that a lot of debt? Why was the debt there? was for the equipment or building? Yeah. Correct. Okay. So then you jumped over to Ambassador Landscaping acquired in 2011. That was a sole proprietor already 12 years in business. Where did you guys find that? Same broker. Same broker. That same broker. Yes. So he's got a bead on you. You're a reliable buyer. Whatever landscaping pops up, he talks to you guys first.

Sure. it fits. I don't know if we were first, but he talked to us. If it fits, you know, our geographical area that we were looking at at the time, you know, and stuff like that, he would run it by us. What was the, do you remember what the valuation for, it was a company for 950K. What was the valuation on that in 2011 and how is that different in 2022?

I want to say, I want to say we paid just under three times SDE. Yeah. the time. So that company was doing about 300 grand SDE and we paid give or take three times, maybe a little more. Same type of scenario, right? Some commercial debt, down payment, some owner financing.

That's kind of requirement for us, right? It's, it's for lack of a better term, it's kind of an insurance policy. when, when someone says, Hey, listen, I, you know, this is what I do. Trust me. It's all there. Blah, blah, blah. said, okay. So if you want me to trust you, then you got to trust me. Yeah. And, and, and they carry a little bit, a little bit of, you know, some, they have some skin in the game. And then, to be honest with you, once we pay them off,

or they've been being paid for a couple of years, they're a pretty good ally for your next acquisition. Because you can say to someone, a future acquisition, hey, listen, I can introduce you to two or three people that can tell you that we're not full of shit and they've been getting paid. We did this with them and they're still around and here we are. So that's worked our benefit numerous times. Yeah, sounds like the broker probably pre frames you too. They go like, here's some great buyers.

Jon Stoddard (07:11.575)
Here's how they buy. If you're open to that, great. Let's meet, put you two together. Sure. I mean, it works. They're great testimonials on both sides. Yeah. Well, and at the end of the day, I think, I think there's a, there's a statistic out there that I want to say like 90 % of businesses don't ever sell. yeah. Yep. and don't quote me on that. I'm not sure, but I know it's a high percentage. so, so when you have a broker that, that knows you can execute,

They, they, they're an ally for you. They find you deals because if they don't sell, don't make any money. Right. Yeah. So you jumped over to moon's landscaping acquired quite soon after that same broker, same different guy or what? yes, same guy. And it's just, that was for $550,000. You got your template stack that you do. And, now you're rolling on. So you got at least three or four going right now.

When you guys put all these together, were the synergies happening like you thought they would? Yes and no. Oftentimes people think putting a deal together and finding the deal is the hard part. When you do it a bunch of times, that's the easy part, man. It's running the damn thing that's challenging, right? Yeah. Dealing with, you know,

60, 80, 100, 200 employees at some point, everybody's different personalities, different issues, everybody thinks they're underpaid. I'm still underpaid by the way, I still think. So that's where the challenge comes in, working capital, everybody wants to grow businesses, but they gotta be funded somehow. Nobody pays in advance, everybody pays 30 days, 45 days. So there's...

cashflow issues all the time. Yes. Post close challenges that often people overlook that in my opinion are the real, you know, is the real challenge. Is that like, you know, opening a chest of, you know, looking under the hood, you see stuff you don't see, or is it? Not really. It hasn't been the case for us. It's just, you know, oftentimes

Jon Stoddard (09:37.261)
Most people think that if something's working, you just keep doing it. But as you grow and exponentially, you have to realize that what got you here won't get you there. You've got to evolve. Human resources comes into play. IT comes into play. Banking, all these other things that

when you're a small business, you kind of just shoot from the hip on all of a sudden become a priority and something that's got to be considered day to day, right? I mean, people want health insurance. You got all kinds of other things that, that weren't part of the business you bought, but now due to the fact that you've grown to a certain level now become part of the equation. Yeah. Now, have you guys ever

Let's say you have it or have built a company before and you know exactly, it's like, Hey, I know traffic, it's going to be six lanes in 2040. So I need to build a 10 lane highway then. I mean, how do you guys work on that and strategize and say, you know, here's what we need to do for the future. You know, we've got to have an HR department. We've got to have a general manager in place. We've got to.

kind of remove ourselves to working above the business? That's a challenge, man. That's tough. We oftentimes reach out. We're big learners or we reach out to people who have been where we want to be, who have done what we want to do. Ask them for help. A lot of times people are

shy or embarrassed or they feel awkward by going to someone and saying, Hey man, I'm doing something similar to what you've done. Would you mind having lunch with me, man? And I can ask you a couple of questions. You would be surprised how helpful some people are. Remember everybody likes to share their story and it's all a game of scales, right? Somebody that's buying their first company might look at us and say, Hey guys, can I take you to dinner? And we'll be like, sure, let's go.

Jon Stoddard (12:00.523)
Yes, exactly. And it's no different than somebody that's doing 500 million looking at us. It's all a game of scales. Yeah. So we've done that. We are are habitual learners. Is he talking about books? You talking about Vistage or young entrepreneurs, all the masterminds? Yes. I got to tell you, that's a common theme. I've done 60 plus interviews.

people that are succeeding going over 50, a hundred million, it's always a mastermind of mentorships. Yes. And they'll point right to it. Yeah. Yeah. So you jumped into a grasshopper landscaping, two quick acquisitions in 2012. How did that opportunity come up? It was a same broker guy or where did that come from? So it's the same broker guy who calls us one day, was a Thursday and he says, Hey,

a little bit unconventional, but a deal fell through for me on a guy that has some visa issues, right? Like some, status issues here in the country or something. And he's in a hurry to sell. Here are the numbers. This is what he accepted. If you, if this is appealing to you guys, we can put this together relatively quick. Yeah. And we looked at it within a week, we got back to them and said, let's, let's, let's move forward.

Then we did. So what was the conversation between you and your brothers and your group say, well, man, that's too much to digest. Can we do it? Should we do it? I mean, what was the, you know, I need to see the worst case scenario, best case scenario on this, because that's a, that's a lot to digest two acquisitions in one year. Yeah. It definitely was.

It's, it's,

Jon Stoddard (14:02.505)
Everybody wants to play in the big, Mike Tyson says it best, right? Everybody thinks they can fight till I punch them in the face. Everything sounds nice and you you got a such and such size company and so many that all sounds good and fine until you're in the middle of it. Right. And we're working 14 hours a day and you know, you don't see your kids and your wife on the weekend sometimes, right? That's where.

Some people draw the line. You've got to be willing to play at the top level and do the definition for me, the definition of whatever it takes is the defining term, right? If you're truly willing to do whatever it takes, then nobody says you can't do it. Now, whatever it takes doesn't mean, hey, I go home at five, got to, know, Sundays, I got to wake up at 10, which is most people.

Those people just don't have the gut to stomach business. Yeah. Well, what if you say, if you look at Warren Buffett, he gets up, he has his Coca Cola or his coffee, he reads for four hours, he reads financial reports, and then he's running a $300 billion company. How do you create a scenario where you're working above the business to do that?

That's always the question that my audience is looking at. Cause like, well, John, I could buy the business and I can buy another one, but then I'm working 12 hours a day. Then I don't see my family. Then I don't, I don't get to go to their soccer games. So, so two things on that, right? That that's, that's a really tough challenge. That's something we work on all the time to work on the business, not in the business. Number one and number two, Jack Welch said it best, right?

There is no such thing as work-life balance. There are work-life choices and we all pay a price for them. Yeah, agreed. Right? you know, does Elon Musk go to all his kids' soccer games? Probably not. I if he knows how many kids he has first. Okay, well, that may be true too. you know, was... going to populate the planet.

Jon Stoddard (16:25.901)
Was Tiger Woods there for every birthday? Probably not. I mean, that's just the price you pay. Yeah. I think you guys, if you find something you really love to do and you're tap dancing to work, the hours, whatever they are, are yours and you choose them. You just don't have any regrets for them. And that's how Jason and I feel. Yeah.

If the goal is clear, know, those things you have to go through in the challenges are obviously significantly easier to deal with. know, it doesn't mean they're easy, just means they're easier to deal with when your goals are clear and you know what you want to do and where you want to be. What was the end goal? When you're young and you meet a new girl, right? You're anxious to go out and you you just, that's all you think about.

You you can't spend enough time with her, yada, yada, yada, yada, right? That's how we feel about what we do. Yeah. Love it. I mean, it's a passion. Yeah. Well, what's the end goal for you guys? What do you guys want to do? What do you want to do? Like build this? Is it a landscaping business or is it a service businesses? What is it a holding company of? So, so their facilities maintenance organizations, right? Yeah. Okay.

So we've been approached three times now for an acquisition that we've, you know, it just hasn't made sense, right? And frankly, we weren't big enough at the time, right? You need more mass. The deployment of capital has got to be large. The goal is to roll up additional organizations throughout the Southeast U.S. in the next three to five years.

And then, you know, sit down with some PE or someone else and maybe take on some funding and continue to roll it out. Yeah. But that's the goal. We don't want to retire. We like what we do. Take pride in it. It's fun. Well, what do you say your the PE firms kind of like the two million above EBITDA before they get on their radar? Where are you guys?

Jon Stoddard (18:48.597)
Now that's a 2012. let's go. Let me, I'm jumping around here, the N Adrian Lacey group, janitorial services. That's what's a kind of an adjacent business, a little bit different, but I guess it falls under facilities maintenance. Yeah. Yes. That was a small janitorial company in South Florida. Yeah. That again, came through a, through the broker to us. Same guy. Same guy. Yeah. Yeah.

And same deal, know, a little bit of commercial debt, some cash upfront and the guy held a note. know, so same thing. That's completely different kind of what makes the bell ring on that for the Jason business. Sometimes what happens with these is like, it's a different core market.

overestimate our skills or overestimating the cross selling upselling or something. Was there any of cross selling between the two or is this completely separate business sitting by itself? So some time probably, I don't know, probably about the time that we got moons and, and a grasshopper, we started

diversifying a bit and not just doing landscaping, but also doing more facilities maintenance, right? And by facilities maintenance, I mean just non permitted day to day work at commercial facilities, whether it's janitorial services, whether it's pressure cleaning, changing a door lock, know, all kinds of odd and end work jobs that come up.

in commercial facilities and we expanded that side to have, think currently we work at over 90 educational facilities throughout the state of Florida, numerous car dealerships, know, Porter services, you know, that type of stuff along with the landscaping. So the Adrian Lacey group fit that side very well. Yeah.

Jon Stoddard (21:13.895)
The Adrian Lacey group, that's who is Adrian Lacey? Why did it? Why was the name called that? Because it doesn't match the janitorial services at all. I can't answer that. idea. No idea. But he had he had some good accounts that made sense. And, you know, that's what we looked at. There's a lot of things, you know, especially on the smaller on the smaller end, the smaller operators that don't make an awful lot of sense that they're doing. You run into that quite often.

So you guys were in this purchasing the multifamily tenants operations and you saw all these facility management services being around this, you know, this planet here and you just said, okay, you're just going to go start purchasing those. Like, yeah, take care of those. Basically we were performing all of these services.

prior to, know, Perry's in 2009, we were performing all of these services for ourselves at our own properties that we owned and operated and managed. So with the Perry's acquisition and all the subsequent acquisitions, we started doing that for other people, you know, and focused strictly on the commercial side, municipalities, commercial, you know, larger buildings, et cetera.

And so all of the acquisitions and the potential acquisitions we look at are still in that space, in that payment space, which does allow some cross-selling. Currently, the companies are divided in just two companies. So we operate as two separate companies, POD, which is Painters on Demand, and Property Works. Yeah, I'm going to talk to you about that Painters on Demand because that's a much bigger acquisition.

Is the goal to continue just buying these satellite type service facilities management businesses or and also to buy more multi-tenant kind of properties? Well, the properties is a separate thing that really has nothing to do with these businesses that our properties is, you know, a separate thing as far as our multifamily properties. Sure, we're always looking in that space and

Jon Stoddard (23:34.569)
In the future, though, there'll be more on the real estate side that we do. However, that's, you know, separate from this as far as on property works and painters on demand. Basically, it just depends deal by deal what we're able to, you know, some people bring us deals, some deals we have that we've identified ourselves through. Vendors or partners that are in our network that we use that, you know, become potential acquisitions, some of them you just tuck in.

And when it's something of substance large enough, it'll be standing on its own as we did with Painters on Demand. Yeah. So let's go into this Painters on Demand acquired in 2021 for $8.59, which was 10 times, almost 10 times the largest acquisition you did on all the others. mean, where did that come from? Was it the broker also? No, that wasn't. So they were...

a sub of ours. We would sub them out large painting projects. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we met the owner, great guy. And one day we're having a drink, shooting the breeze and, you know, just talking about what we do, what our plans are. And we told him a little bit about what we wanted to do. And he said, you know, at some point I, I'd like to turn the page, you know, I'm, you know, of, X age and, know, I want to enjoy life a little bit, blah, blah, blah.

And I talked to Jason and we came back to him and said, Hey, why don't we talk about this? Right. and a year and a half later, we own the company. So it was a, a year and a half sales cycle where you're planted the seed. It goes through his head. Like these guys are can buy it, take it over, keep my legacy, keep my employees and okay. I'm comfortable with these. The deal fell apart a couple of times before it happened.

Why did it fall apart? Just because it does. mean, he had an advisor that told him that he thought he could get more money for it, you know? So we, we were honest with him. said, Hey, listen, man, we've done this a couple of times. This is your first time. This is what's going to happen. They're pulling your chain when it comes down to it. They're going to run you through the mill, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he was honest with us too. He's a great guy. We still hang out with him. We've got a meeting next week, I think.

Jon Stoddard (26:02.861)
He said, I understand guys, but for my sake, I just got to go through the motions. I said, all right, so let's give it a timeline. I think we gave him like 90 days. If in 90 days, you don't have a asset purchase agreement in place, we go back to the table. Was this a broker dealer and it was listed on a site, say? No, it was a guy. I don't even know what the guy It was a smaller &A firm that he was working with that was essentially

preparing him to bring them to market. Okay. And he said, what, what, valuation did that guy say it was worth? I mean, cause that's how you really sign up clients to say, my God, you're going to get 10 times X. I don't, if I told you, man, I'd be making it up. don't remember exactly, but it was, I want to say it was like eight times or something. It was like high.

Eight times even on a painting company. Okay. Yeah. And we were like, and again, don't quote me on that. was, it was high. was too high for you guys. Yeah. Yeah. think it was too high for anybody, Frank. I don't know anybody that paid that eight X even. And the market doesn't bear that. Right. And, and so he went through it. So 90 days later, you know, we, we call them and we say, Hey, where you at? And he said, you know what, man, it hasn't happened. you know,

I'm going to pull the plug. said, all right, so let's schedule a meeting, meet you and Jason, lock ourselves up in a conference room and we draw out the deal. And we did that. I think we were in the room for four or five hours and we left with an executed LOI and then we put it all together after that. What kind of questions did you ask him to get his real motivation? Like what were his curious or odd

Like, I want this, like, you know. So, a couple of things that we've figured out which helps is most of the time, right, at this smaller level businesses, the people that are selling have this notion, and I'm not saying this was this guy's notion, but they have this notion that your business is indirectly worth

Jon Stoddard (28:22.325)
what you feel you need to do for the rest of your life, right? So you feel you need $3 million because you want to travel the world and have, you know, X amount put away for the rest of your life. So all of a sudden your business is now worth $3 million, right? One thing has nothing to do with the other, but this is a lot of times they're thinking. So you have to allow them to speak and, and, and

in many cases, kind of try to educate them a little bit and say, hey, listen, one thing has nothing to do with the other. There may be a way that we can get you to the 3 million bucks, i.e. some seller financing, which you're to make some interest on the money. We're going to pay you more than the bank's going to pay you, yada, yada, yada. But one thing has nothing to do with the other. At that point, if they look around enough and speak to enough brokers, typically they'll find somebody

whose valuation aligns with what they feel they need for the rest of their lives, right? Yeah. And this is kind of weird because businesses, business owners, it's really easy to see what the comps are in real estate and what the property next door is selling. Like, well, dude, you're not going to get any more than the guy next door that sold to you, right? Correct. But business owners, there's not a, you know, they don't go, they have a broker or an investment banker says it's worth 10 X. Yeah, that's crazy.

But they don't, there's no place where they can go, well, it's only two X or three X. on. Yeah. And so that happens, that happens often. And, know, a lot of times they fail to realize how, how involved they are in their business. And if they weren't as involved, then potentially or most likely that multiple would be higher. However, they are.

almost always more involved than they lead you on to believe they are? Yeah. I mean, they could be doing the hiring, firing. They could do the sales or business development or they're doing all of this stuff. They are still inside the business. Correct. And it's not automated or a general manager in place. And if it was automated and there was those people in place, frankly, most of the time they wouldn't be selling. Let's be honest. That's very true. Yeah.

Jon Stoddard (30:47.661)
So the real test is simple, right? And we ask them all the time when we meet with people, no, no, no, my business runs by itself. I think I work like two hours a week. Really? So really, well, pack your shit, let's go. We're going to disappear for two weeks. Let's see what happens. Well, no, no, no, I can't do that. Well, because I got to do payroll and I got this and that and the other and yada yada yada. So that defines really if you got a really good job.

We actually have a business. Can you leave for two weeks and call in every couple of days and the business keeps running. You got a name for that? Like a fishing for swordfish two week trip? Whatever, man. Vacation in Belize is something. But if you can't leave and things run by themselves, so to speak, you really don't have a business. You got a good job. Yeah. You got a great job. And so.

Did he realize when you guys went to this four hour meeting, did he already go through this process and realize like, man, I, I'm at this point, I'm going to be transparent because it's not selling it. want out. What was motivated to want out? it, was it health reasons or something? So, he didn't, he doesn't have any health reasons. Thankfully, like Tony said, he's a great guy. He's a, he's a good friend of ours. Now we enjoy spending time with them.

Frankly, I just believed he knew where we were at in the economy cycle, where we're at economically. And he knew that he was not willing to take on the next step and the next tier of his business to grow it to the next level, frankly, and felt confident that we could do that.

We've shown, you know, we were able to show him and prove to him that we could do that. In a lot of ways, our operation, you know, our, we operated similarly in a lot of ways. So, you know, he was attracted to that. We were attracted to that. We both liked each other's teams at, you know, the different companies, et cetera. So, you know, it was a good fit. And I'm sure if you ask him, he'd tell you the same thing. It was the best fit.

Jon Stoddard (33:12.705)
He did speak to some other people like Tony said earlier, and it just wasn't the same thing. And frankly, even with those other people, we knew who they were, what they were doing. It would have never worked anyway. So he saw the headwinds coming in the economy and didn't want to go through another down cycle and the energy required that. then he didn't want to, he didn't have the energy to grow to the next level.

of the conversation came up, did he kind of ask you for a piece of it, kind of doing the private equity model, put 30 % back in chips on the table? Did he ask for any slice of that? If you took it to 16 million, he'd get the upside on that? No, no, we didn't do that. No, he was pretty honest, man. Like I said, we talked about it he just said, hey guys, listen, man, I,

you know, it's just time for me to move on. You know, I've done this and I wanna, you know, I wanna travel a little bit, blah, blah, blah. And spend some time with my grandkids and you you guys are younger and I think this is a good fit. Which it has been thus far. How old was he? I wanna say he's early sixties. Yeah. But everybody's different, man. What's ideal for me may not be for you or vice versa.

geez, look at the Warrant Above at Charlie Mugger. They're 92. Sure. They're making still billion dollar deals, hundred billion dollar deals. In their case, a little bit different. That's the only thing keeping them alive. That's true. If they stop off that train, that's all you have at that point. Yeah, that's interesting. So how is that? Did you install a general manager? Somebody one of you two take over or what? Did he have a number two man in place? So he had and still has.

his, his core, his C-suite for lack of a better term, were three bad-ass guys. Just good, good, good guys. we met with them, had drinks, hung out with them. We liked them. They, they get along. you know, that, that was an important part for us. post-close we told them we were going to.

Jon Stoddard (35:38.349)
put a program in place where we were going to share the growth with them, i.e. overrides, commissions and stuff like that, where they were going to, we're going to bust ass, but they were going to make more money. And it's worked out that way for all of us. I mean, we're doing really well with that business. They're doing well. They're making more money. It's great all the way around. Show me the competition plan. I'll show the outcomes.

Yeah. And, and, know, oftentimes, again, going back to people who we've met that are trying to do what we're doing, you got to realize that you're not the only person that wants to make more money. Right. Right. Everybody thinks, yeah, I got it. You got to share, right? You got your own, you're defined by your team. You want good people. You want to be able to, grow. You've got to have people, you can put weight on their shoulders and those people want to make money.

Yeah, are you having trouble finding give it to them? yeah, right. No. I'm not saying give it to them. But but put a vehicle in place where they can earn it. Yeah. As far as finding people. Yes. If I told you we weren't, I'd be lying. It's a challenge to find people. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. Well, going back to that conversation with the seller, and he knows that there's headwinds happening, you know, there's headwinds happening. Are you offering them a multiple

Because of those headwinds a little bit lower, economy goes south, interest rates go up, inflation goes up. The answer is yes in a certain way. Part of the multiple ordeal that we struck up and the capital stack and everything has to do with that.

Did hold the sellers? No, we do have some commercial debt, et cetera. So we felt and still feel that given the deal that we came up with, I mean, it was no secret a year ago that at some point here, we're heading into a recession, rates are gonna go up. mean, things like that are happening. That's not a secret, whether it's six months or 18 months or 24 months is to be seen, but it's gonna happen.

Jon Stoddard (38:03.457)
would be naive to think not. So all that stuff was taken into consideration in our deal. So curious, a year and a half, it's your biggest deal in your facilities management, not including the property style. What do you two guys do to celebrate that success? Try to find another one, man. What the hell else are you going to

That's the most frustrating part is having the ability and the wherewithal to replicate this and it taking time in order to find the right acquisition and what makes sense. That part's a little frustrating. Yeah. Do you sometimes feel imperative to continue? This is what happens to a lot of people that start acquiring companies serially is they just keep acquiring and they don't digest.

the others putting processes in place. I agree with that. And as Tom, who you had on your podcast, the Canadian guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot him, right. So so we as well went to see Dan Pena in Scotland. OK, OK. So so we went twice. I think he went twice as well.

So Dan said something to us, which I'll never forget. He says that Boone Pickens taught him this. And he said, Boone Pickens said, Danny boy, don't get too hungry. If you want to deal bad enough, you'll make a bad deal. So in other words, don't be a deal junkie and just chase the high, right? Yeah. point, make sure you digest them, make sure things flow. There's processes and systems in place.

you know, be able to support it. Yeah. At some point, if you were that deal, I slim pick and, out of Texas oil guy, buddy, you know, the chair, there's only one chair left to two people and somebody's going to be left without a chair. Yeah. Yeah. That's also, also that digestion period, seems to be a little bit less, as the size of the deal.

Jon Stoddard (40:27.917)
Gross. Remember the larger the deal, the more infrastructure is already in place. And if it's a large enough deal, you're going to leave that deal on its own, worry about some cross-selling after the fact, but that deal is going to sustain itself and it's running on its own. So it doesn't take as long to digest it because you it's not like small deals and in 09, 10, 12, 11 that, know, you're just tucking them in. There's a lot more

moving parts there. Yeah. What did you guys learn about the big deal versus the small deals? Will you do these small deals anymore? We would if it makes sense. I've heard not to strategically. Yeah. You do something and tuck it in, but

To us, the larger deals just make more sense. It takes just as much energy and effort and in certain places, back to what I was just saying, mean, having infrastructure in place and just tweaking what's in place and adding to that is a lot easier than building it. Yeah. How do you guys, I got to talk about you guys working together. How do you guys work together? Who takes the role? You got a big smile on your face on that one. Who takes this role? Who takes that role? And a win.

somebody's got an idea and this guy thinks it's dumb and vice versa. How does that work itself out? Because I, I've been like, I got a brother one year older than me and we probably wouldn't be friends if we weren't related, but I love them to death. Well, we're, we've always worked together. And we owe that to our parents that, you know, bred that and, and like that we've always worked together. We kind of stay in our own lanes of however we do, you know, have

have a, you know, we do crossover and communicate about everything and have disagreements. And, you know, the biggest thing is our goals are the same. And we understand that we're all, you know, pushing in the same direction. You have different views at times. We do have different ways of looking at things. Generally, we end up, you know, at the same outcome, you know, to a problem, you know.

Jon Stoddard (42:45.869)
He looks at it this way. look at it this way, spin around in circles and we end up at the same place most of the time. Yeah. Do you guys have an equal veto vote on an acquisition or a project? Absolutely. It's 50, everything's 50 50. Yeah. If we both don't move forward, we don't move forward. What did your family, your parents do that instilled you to keep that family unit together? Like, Hey,

what, did your mom or dad call you? Antonio or Tony? Tony, Tony, we're having dinner at six, be here. You know, you're in trouble. everybody at the dinner at six o'clock. Listen, man. I think what we got in today's day and age is lost and I feel bad for a lot of kids. Our dad was tough.

Right? He was amazing. And I wish he was still around to see our success because essentially we owe it to him and my mom. Unfortunately, he's not, he's passed. But tough love works, man. Respect, following through, having a word. If I tell you I'm gonna do something, I'll be damned, I'm gonna do it. Right? He taught us integrity.

right? Since we were kids, respect, mean, just a number of different things, work ethic. know, he worked, he came to this country when he was 11 years old, without his parents. Cuba? From Cuba, yeah. He went to an orphanage. know, a years, I think several months or a year later, his dad came and at 16 his dad died here in this country. He was on his own. He struggled.

I met my mom in Chicago and they moved over here and had a family. like, as Jason said, we owe all of our success to the foundation they created for us. We did it, but they created the foundation that enabled us to do that. That's a great story, man. I love these stories because, the tough love and the foundation, the platform that he created allowed you to be where you're at.

Jon Stoddard (45:11.947)
Yeah. What other kind of integrity? mean, what was an experience where you may have crossed the line and he said, like, no, this is what we do. You're to go return the money or whatever that was.

Jon Stoddard (45:34.477)
don't have to think about that a little bit. I'm sure there's a couple of them, probably some of them you won't want me to share here, but I got to think a little bit about that. Yeah. But what else is like integrity, manners? I can tell also dress too, because you guys are dressed to the nines, like the Kingsman dress. You look great. Both of you guys. Yeah. Was dress in there too? yeah, absolutely. Manners make it the man?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm trying to think what I could tell you.

You know, and when we were kids, Family members, everybody, they would tell us we were all kind of crazy because all we did was work and he was tough on us. And it's fascinating to see now, right?

when we were kids, we thought it was a bit nuts. And now we think how right he really was in many, many, many things. And those people that often criticized and thought we were nuts are not in such a good place right now, right? And their plan didn't quite work out as well as ours did. Now, again, not that we weren't fortunate, good health and all kinds of other things, but there was just this

gut man, this, this urge to succeed and be the best you can be at whatever it is you're going to do. Right. If you're going to pick up trash, you're going to be the best trash collector there is. Right. That in today's day and age, like this, everybody gets a trophy bullshit. I'm out. If you suck, you need to know you suck. Go find a different sport. Yeah. Right.

Jon Stoddard (47:32.427)
Hey, I'm not good at this. Let me go get somebody else to do this, right? You know that didn't exist when we were kids. Yeah. So I mean, where did that come from from him though? Because he was abandoned and like a by himself at 1114 and well he wasn't abandoned. He moved over. Yeah, he moved over by himself and into orphanage and then lost his dad so.

You guys had a great mentor role. Yes. But he didn't. Where'd that come from? Yeah. I don't know. And I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you this. If we would not be successful and we don't to me, speaking for myself, if I don't use that to the best of my ability and I'm not successful.

then I believe that I'm a failure because these people made these decisions and went through these struggles. And ultimately I'm the benefactor of that, not financially, but being here and what they taught and the foundation and being able to be born in the United States. And if I don't take advantage of that, then I'm a failure. that's decisions and gratefulness. Good decisions and gratefulness. just heard. Sure. So another thing that we

Tony just briefly mentioned and I got to mention and I'm sure he'll say the same. The foundation and all of that was put there by our parents and we can't say enough about that. When we went to see Dan Peña that put lighter fluid on it. We had so much of the foundation and certain things, but seeing him and spending time with Dan put lighter fluid on top of that for both of us.

What attracted, I mean, there's a lot of coaches out there today that teach the acquisition entrepreneurship. What was it about Dan that attracted you? So I'll give you a quick story. And I told him this when we sat with him. I go see a guy.

Jon Stoddard (49:44.845)
in Miami. we, Jason, I go see a guy, motivational speaker guy in Miami and we get back home. Don't know how, but I'm going through my phone and a video of Dan Pena comes up. We got back late. It's probably 1230 at night. I'm laying in bed. I'm listening to the video. I was hooked out of the box. I just, I like like real people.

I cuss obviously, he cusses. I don't like people to sugarcoat stuff, right? And he does not. He's not looking for friends. You need a friend, buy a dog. I liked that in people. It was 3.30 in the morning. I was still listening to him. My wife's going, what is going on? Who is this guy? What is he talking about, right? So I called Jason.

He goes, what happened? I'm telling him about it at 3.30 in the morning. And he's going, can't this wait till tomorrow? I'm like, no, man, this guy is amazing. This is like us. And so I was overwhelmed by it out of the box. It took us probably a year to make the decision to fly over there and do it. It's not cheap, by the way. And I think, and I told him this,

In my opinion, to Jason's point, aside from our parents, it's probably running a close second or a close first to the most instrumental thing for us. Because he teaches you and explains to you from someone who's done it, not someone who's read about it or someone who was told how to do it. He did it.

He tells you the stuff that most people don't. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. But what is it? Is it the mechanics of how it's done or it's the belief system that you can do it that he's teaching you? It's all of the above. It's all of the above because a lot of people think they can do it and believe they can do it, but they don't have the tools. Other people have the tools, but they don't think they can do it. So it's a mixture of putting all that together.

Jon Stoddard (52:10.047)
and spending time with someone who's done it. I mean, have boys, right? 11 years old. On the way to school, we listen to Dan Pena together. And when we get to school, he says, dad, turn that down, because these people might not understand what he's talking about when you open the door, right?

You know, I'm a big believer in that. I think I'm very grateful to him. He's had us on as well as he has as he's had Tom to speak to some of his new mentees. But but we're thankful to him. Yeah, well, that's great. And you guys are kicking ass. And that is an hour gone by. So I thank you, Tony. And thank you, Jason. I really appreciate it.

Appreciate you having us Thank you for having us. Yeah. Good story, guys. Well dressed. Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Take care.