From Zero to $38M in Revenue with 7-Figure MSP Acquisitions

Summary

In this conversation, Orin Clopper shares his journey as a co-founder of a managed service provider, detailing his experiences with acquisitions, the importance of maintaining a full pipeline of opportunities, and the role of company culture in successful business growth. He discusses the challenges and lessons learned from past acquisitions, the criteria for selecting potential businesses, and the significance of transparency and alignment in values. Orin also emphasizes the competitive landscape of the MSP market and the strategies he employs to navigate it, including the use of earn-outs and the importance of networking for deal flow.

Takeaways

Don't fall in love with opportunities.
Maintain a full pipeline to enhance decision-making.
Acquisitions come with inherent challenges and mistakes.
Cultural fit is crucial in acquisitions.
Age does not determine talent or capability.
Decentralization of decision-making fosters growth.
Transparency in financials builds trust with employees.
Networking is essential for finding acquisition opportunities.
Earn-outs can drive both positive and negative behaviors.
A strong company culture attracts talent and partners.

 

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Transcript:

jon_stoddard (00:01.29)
welcome to the top man a entrepreneurs today my guest is orin clopper from net surat he's the co it's a managed service provider he's done three acquisitions the seven figure range to building company worth thirty five million in sales and he's working on two right now so welcome to the show or

orrin (00:24.78)
thanks so much john

jon_stoddard (00:26.55)
so hey i've got to get a check in with you you mentioned this is a month ago how are these two l is on these other companies what's going on with us

orrin (00:36.38)
yeah good so we got one signed happy to say and the other we're right in the heart of the yea or no make it or break it so we're there are meetings tomorrow and over the next couple of weeks but it's looking good but another one another two have actually popped up so look i mean the one thing i've learned john is probably worth sharing is yer

not to fall in love with opportunities and to make sure my pipeline is so full that just by pure function of options and choice my discernment and my ability to make good decisions is amplified so i'm putting a lot of a lot of energy into filling up that pipe line

jon_stoddard (01:29.33)
yeah that is incredibly important and i'm going to get to that very specific topic right now but i want to kind of go back and talk about your origin story and you're from south africa we have another guy on this planet that's worth a couple hundred billion dollars from same area

orrin (01:42.08)
yes

orrin (01:47.46)
yes s a legend

jon_stoddard (01:48.77)
how did you so kein south carabica start making acquisitions tell me that story

orrin (01:54.08)
so now you know i actually want to do a gratitude post for there was this this amazing woman who names on ronadtmarkoft i met her at a maro partner conference in south africa and i said to her you know we'd love to have a bigger voice as a markoff partner and she said well i've got the exact thing for you and long story short she got us on one of the marks off partner advisory cancels the first time i attended that my first trip to the u s was two thousand and four

i went and bought it like a fresh suit and kind of made sure i was looking sharp and so forth and so from two thousand and four i was travelling through the u s to three times a year and fast forward to twenty fifteen i was out with a friend one night in new york and we managed to win them as a customer so we serviced them totally remotely from south africa and we kind of took that into our strategic planning saying we've got

jon_stoddard (02:41.63)
m

orrin (02:53.6)
a really significant customer in new york were servicing remotely we've always had aspirations to grow globally we tried two acquisitions in australia we tried one in the u k all of them have fallen through and we said okay fine let's give this a crack i decided i would move to new york to grow the business and through that process we found i'm a member of entrepreneurs organization i met with other members and we found really great

business great entreprenter that it just made sense for us to buy their business and that's how it started that was back in twenty sixteen made every mistake

jon_stoddard (03:33.47)
was your revenue already at that point before you bought him or was was this a brand first acquisition kind of thing

orrin (03:41.14)
no no no no we were we were if i remember correctly i was actually looking at it because the other day i think i think we were twelve million dollars in revenue excluding the acquisition

jon_stoddard (03:52.87)
okay

orrin (03:55.02)
and our trailing twelve months as at the end of january is thirty eight

jon_stoddard (04:00.95)
nice yeah so what was kind o this m s p you bought in new york this first one was it on market off market deal and you know

orrin (04:10.48)
no it was it was not on market both the owners had moved to denver one owner had been out of the business for a while there was one owner who was in the business and he was trying to navigate between between new york and denver and so they were i just kind of had some initial discussions we seemed to click and said to him would you be open to considering this and then we went through a process

it wasn't totally on market there was another bitter that there were in discussions with i was taken and the time was all covered i don't know if you remember when all covered were very active in the m s p market they were buying a lot of businesses but there weren't they were not in a full process

jon_stoddard (04:59.01)
yeah and you how did you buy that kind of looking cap stack offer did you make to this

orrin (05:05.46)
yeah yeah so we fortunately we we had the cash within the business to do the cash portion so there was a trying to remember the ratio but it was a cash up front portion of the total valuation i think it was over fifty it was close to fifty per cent and then there was a a significant earn our portion must a little elbert dusty there was twenty sixteen

i'd have to go and check those those those those numbers to make sure but there was a cash portion and there was an earner portion

jon_stoddard (05:43.01)
yeah and i take it they're happy with the yard out

orrin (05:47.68)
look you know to be honest we had a cash flow generation formula that the business had to generate a certain amount of cash what had to generate the cash the equivalent of the earn out and we made every mistake we possibly could john in in that deal except or other business and the business you know the market ad changed quite radically already whereas if you go back maybe twenty ten between eleven and twenty twelve to get

new customers as an m p was not that hot it wasn't as much of a red ocean but by twenty sixteen twenty seventeen it had already become unbelievably competitive and their marketing an organic growth engine stored and we were trying to fix it and then we had lots of stuff so there were some inherent challenges that was that really really kind of led to us not being able to pay the full earner

but when i look to day because they rolled some equity when i look to day at what the value is of their equity and the rate at which it's growing they're they're going to do unbelievably significantly significantly

jon_stoddard (07:00.01)
it's worth more than it was a yeahyeahwhat kind of did you have conversations with em it's really curious because everybody wants to do these earn outs because the risk is on some kind of future activity but what happens if you don't right you know head winds macro environment you know it becomes red ocean what happens you like you're going to have to call make a phone call

orrin (07:17.74)
yeah yeah

orrin (07:29.32)
yeah look we have a love hate relationship with erna because sometimes nat can drive the wrong behavior so we did a deal in in new jersey in twenty twenty one where these guys these guys shot the lights out so we re negotiated the erna into a note so that what we actually wanted to do we wanted to do more integration and the erna was driving behavior to keep it separate because i wanted to protect the reporting of their numbers

et cetera et cetera so i think that initial phase and erna is good just to see you know is there something significant we miss is there some external force or is there some significant change that is going to erode and degrade the value of what we've required so we've got to love hate relationship with ernrts i think it's something that's good it can because you never know when when there's a major change like a sale of a business or a key leader

leaves the operational executive function will clients get scared will clients look at moving on so that's where an erna can add value but it can drive the wrong behavior to so you know there's it's something we debate often but if i look at the deals that we're doing now these two or the one that's in l and the other one we're looking to get into the other two that we're negotiating there's definitely an earn out portion but even with the one that we

and i said to them openly look we've got to love hate relationship with earts and there's a fair chance year down the line where we see integration and energies that mean us acting more as one business we might come back to you and say let's cancel arnaut and re structure that

jon_stoddard (09:16.97)
all right so that's kind of an option in your asset purchase agreement or l or some kind of under and what are these kind of acquisitions you look for that meet your criteria revenue profits number of customers concentration

orrin (09:21.04)
yes yes yes

orrin (09:29.18)
sure ye sure sure so kind of kind of even a range is five and a thousand dollars a libra to one and a half million that's the range that we target and am at we're looking at organizations that are in m s p i managed service provider and predominantly focused on the macrosoff technology stack that's where our skill setters they're focused on the s b

i could broadly we define there is companies of between twenty five to a thousand users computer technology users were also looking for organizations john that have some industry expertise or experience because we believe that's part of the evolution of the industry and it's a big part of our marketing and we want to protect that and then probably i mean outside of the numbers john one of the biggest things is is there a fit can break

bread with these people have you got similar values and what we look for during those initial discussions is what are some of those critical conversations actually quite tough how does the person respond you know and that's where we kind of get to know each other better so that really has been one of the biggest ones and i mean one thing that happened recently in this in this opportunity i'm so keen to get into this guy was

jon_stoddard (10:51.13)
yeah

orrin (10:59.06)
it's so impressive man he it's not a big business there about six million dollars in revenue let say plus minus twenty people he sat down with his key management over a year and a half ago and said he wants to do this he wants to find a growth partner for this next chapter and even in the early phases of the discussions with him he's brought some of his team and they're not equity holders it's not like

shareholders so just from a leadership perspective and a culture perspective that's very aligned with us because that's how we operate we we know know we're like we're over three hundred people there's no way i can make even one hundredth of the key decisions in the business there are so many other important people so we're like that we're transparent and open and i was just so impressed with this guy because sometimes what happens john is you'll find the key co shareholder doesn't want anybody else

to know anything and i can respect that and i can almost argue in their favorite i can understand why you're doing that but where we've seen deals go well is where there's more openness which is quite an easy thing to gage early on

jon_stoddard (12:13.25)
hm

is he this guy is he also open book transparent like he shows the financials here here's what we need to do because here's where we're at

orrin (12:25.16)
with his team yeah yeah they just had a cracker year he paid big bonuses he showed them the numbers showed them why yeah he's just men

jon_stoddard (12:26.17)
yeah yeah yeah

jon_stoddard (12:39.19)
is that something you're going to add to your criteria of like hey man if we could give it all the things things that we meet our criteria what we want to buy in the financials and then we find this guy who's this openness not only to his employees but with the financials that's the one we're willing to pay a little bit more on

orrin (12:59.34)
well it's a function of we know that there's going to be a good foot you know so we know that there's going to be valued because even if i look at our business what we realized from if you think about the contempt of a growth mind set so if you are going to sell your business to net shirt or any organization for that matter and you want to travel that journey further to make the most of that opportunity you need a growth mind set and that is what can enable you to put any sort of fife

ego type thinking aside and say okay fan i'm on a bigger journey here where can i add value what can i like of and what can i really be part of building this next sort of chapter and so for us it's about fit and that is a very very clear sign

jon_stoddard (13:50.11)
what's the some of the questions you ask coming aside from the openness and you know he's telling a story to his employes about this is what i want to do let me let me before i ask that question does he sound like a guy that wants to exit and go do something else or is he a guy that's just gotten tired of running it himself and could be a great general manager a v p of a large organization

orrin (14:18.76)
he could be a great genalmanager v p of a larger organization he has wrapped his mind around potentially exciting entirely but in the context of our discussion he's quite excited about the plans and some of the things we're wanting him to do his kids are older he's looking at a know probably in the next few years they'll be leaving home so he's looking at a new sort of chapter in his life but he's super savy

super talented you just really really a great leader

jon_stoddard (14:54.93)
why did you decide to focus on that kind of range of revenue ty but is it because you know too many bigger guys focused on this and this is uncrowded blue market blue ocean

orrin (15:06.36)
yeah so it's kind of as as we had up even over a million there's a lot of activity in this market and look at a big market i mean you can say anybody said between between twenty to thirty thousand m s s out there depending on what demographus use you could have a bun build strategy in this market for ten years and they still a ton of spes out there so i mean the re about sixty active p firms in the market that that have a m s p

platform play and so they're hunting hard hunting hard for opportunities and so as you start moving up it becomes very competitive the investment banks have convinced a lot of them you have to be in a full process and we think of full process john drives the wrong behavior we think it

jon_stoddard (15:37.59)
yeah

jon_stoddard (16:00.11)
well what are what are you referring to full process

orrin (16:03.22)
so like going to full teaser do some and then meet with thirty potential interested parties and you know so i think what we've seen with some of the organizations that we've that we've engaged with that are in a full and in a full process it i think it loses i think the the the two most important things in their legacy

one of the people and and their clients and i think when when there's a full process there is a hype around what the valuation should be so i think there's some unrealistic things that set in there and there's an over emphasis that gets placed on the valuation and there's an under emphasis that gets placed on what's goin t happen to my people and what's going to happen to my clients and so i'm not saying a process isn't

for some organizations or it's just in our minds for people that that are better fit for us it's where you deeply value your what can happen with your people and you deeply value what can happen your class and you want a good deal

jon_stoddard (17:17.49)
you no no i mean that's the full process is created action the highest valuation in the biggest price for the exit like i don't really care oh yeah i do but how do you say yes or no to a business real quick you know it's off market deal and it's like no i don't want that it meets all that it's right in the ba it's right in the niche or niche

orrin (17:26.28)
that's it

yeah

orrin (17:43.5)
yeah

yeah

jon_stoddard (17:48.27)
then you have this conversation with the seller can be first thirty minutes and it's yes or no let's go to the next quote

orrin (17:54.76)
no od question so what we become very good at is early on is getting a sense of valuation expectations because you know if i look last year i felt like there was a click we were enjoying each other and we had lots and lots o meetings got down to putting down some numbers and it was kind of like six hundred thousand dollar buss even one of twelve times even

i should have addressed that much earlier on you know and so that's one where right now right now we address that very very quickly secondly the one thing in our culture which is quite unusual john is we have something called our dreams program which is it's like if you go and search on glass door you'll see some negative reviews about our culture because i tell you why it's not for everybody okay so what we say

jon_stoddard (18:27.07)
oh yeah

orrin (18:54.5)
is our personal lives and our work lives are inextricably linked and we put forward the idea that you can actually lead a balanced life and do truly great work at the same time and we balance that against ameritocracy as well and what that is asking you to do is engaged in the culture where you create a dream book you share your goals and dreams you get put in a dream group and so there's a certain value system and openness that is required for that

to resonate and if i can see early on that this person is things the exact opposite look works work personal is personal life we're not interested if i see a disconnect on that dry up front then i know that's not going to be a fit for us and that's why it should even from from when we employ people in the final meeting before we actually when we make the offer we said to them look and we address the dreams program all the way through the interview process if this is not going to

and and you're skeptical about it in any way don't join we try to do the same in the acquisitive growth process to say to them if you're going to travel this journey with us this is an unusual thing it's not that common understand it absorbed and if you do believe there's a foot there then that's going to make for a great journey so if i see that early on we move we'll move away from it what we

sometimes an i move away very quickly john is high revenue concentration around one specific customer so we had great opportunity in i forget the city and i just love the entreprenter we had great discussion and there was about sixty percent of the revenue is one customer they lost half of it okay and they kind of went off with another opportunity don't another acquisition of

and work they came back we started talking again we know i could see clearly writing was on the wall that they were going to lose the other half of that and so for us if we can see we've got to fix something we think very very carefully and right now we walk away from all of those opportunities

jon_stoddard (21:14.87)
was there contract up or what do they lose it because of not meeting expectations or they got a part

orrin (21:22.24)
they got a cut they got a quid they got a quid and then there was a piece taken in house which you've seen happen again and again

jon_stoddard (21:29.75)
yeah so you don't like those deals like the cut out carve out

orrin (21:32.4)
yeah yeah we don't we don't like those deals

jon_stoddard (21:38.73)
yeah so let's go back to your deal flow on how you're doing that to find i guess this kind of goes back to what's your long term goal to get to are you looking for an excidntor you're going to stay with it till like you know monger and buffet till they your room temperature

orrin (21:45.58)
yeah sure

orrin (21:58.7)
uh

orrin (22:03.06)
i just pictured myself at that age still doing this look look

jon_stoddard (22:07.89)
have you seen the latest picture of them i mean they're ninety five and they're like a

orrin (22:14.04)
those guys are sucking legends man that they really are no no no i love them

jon_stoddard (22:17.67)
and they still can answer any question about anything you throw at him and his glasses mongers glasses are about an inch deck

orrin (22:27.88)
no no i mean let me just tell you an age story i mean that business we bought in new jersey there gus in their team mid sixties early seventies okay they are performing many parts of our busesessi'm the last guard ever judge anybody in seniority and we introduce a new product okay and they sold every single one so i mean i believe if you love

jon_stoddard (22:30.87)
yeah

jon_stoddard (22:44.45)
an age no m is a mirror man i'm

orrin (22:56.4)
you do in your talented in your good age doesn't matter but look i absolutely love what i do and i would i would love to do this for as long as i can add value as long as i'm able to lead and and create the value that i believe i can what are our plans look you know were totally privately held and that's that's what we want to do for now based on this

strategy we have we want to get to ten million dollars bite in the next in the next twenty four months that's our goal that's kind of a threshold we want to achieve and we believe we can protect being totally privately held getting to that point every deal we execute on john our access to finance goes up our ability to write one

jon_stoddard (23:48.05)
yeah yeah what is happening there because i'm looking at a chart right now under m s ps under five hundred thousand could be four to five four to six maybe five hundred thousand to a million it's five to seven or sixty eight somewhere around there two million or more you could be anywhere from nine to fourteen x

orrin (23:59.02)
yeah

orrin (24:03.0)
yeah

orrin (24:12.14)
yeah now that's so our trailing twelve trailing twelve months adjusted four point two four point two million and if i just factor in the stuff and if i look run right going forward we're close to five okay and if we add the acquisition we've got an l n that puts us on five point six you know i think let me put it to the i'm the most focused on this i've ever been there

if we continue with the mamintum we have right now and i'll talk a little bit about deal flow and why i think that's that's part of it i think i think we could end up closing enough deals before december of this year to have a run rate view of of ten

jon_stoddard (25:04.05)
man i'm really curious about your culture and your style of management and why people are tracted to you and want to work with you i mean they're happy to be a w to employee and say i want to work with or i love what he's doing i love how i'm treated who is that and what do you do

orrin (25:05.88)
and

orrin (25:27.94)
yeah so i think you know the one the one thing that we realize the leadership team as we've gone through this fast growth and this has been this is become embedded in our culture over the last ten years i'd say is that the only way we can grow is if we decentralized thinking okay and decentralized decision making and that naturally is concurrent with what an entreprener enjoys you know

i remember the early days of the business john like two thousand doesn't want to walk past a board room i been like what's going on here you're having a meeting and i'm not in the meeting what i was like a megalomaniac but now the more meetings i'm not in the more things i'm not involved in the better and i'm not saying that in a way that i'm neglecting it's just i've got stuff i want to focus on i think naturally for entrepreneurs and leaders when they're joining our culture

they can clearly see that we don't want to make manage anything okay and if you're performing you just do your thing like that business in new jersey is an example these guys just over

jon_stoddard (26:39.39)
are other people making these acquisitions and deal the reason i asked that is like you're familiar with mark leonard over a constellation software

orrin (26:47.22)
i've heard of him

jon_stoddard (26:48.35)
yeah he is all about decentralization his g ms are making acquisitions without even him knowing it because he's put the culture into that business where they have confidence and you know they make mistakes they own up

orrin (26:55.04)
yeah

orrin (27:03.16)
no that's it take example hiring say you're hiring someone and you interview that morning give you in i'll say fun no interview i say john i wouldn't hire this person but you on that decision okay you must hire whoever you want because if you get it right you take you you must take that recognition you get it wrong you got to deal with it so that's very very much i think and what we do is financial

transparent we have a stratcar meeting every single month were now only to about the key leaders we invite anybody that wants to attend can come see how we're performing against our financials and our strategic dashboard we use the four disciplines of execution from cove on how we run that every single person has a ball and school card you know as you might say that's macro because it's measured monthly but you know what we found a players love to know how they're being measured they want to know that

jon_stoddard (28:01.97)
there is something innate in that they have to measure against others and themselves

orrin (28:08.84)
yeah they love it so now we decentralized the information and the knowledge and we try to decentralize as much of the as much of the decision making as we possibly can

jon_stoddard (28:21.17)
yeah well are you mostly involved in the acquisitions now you're still in control of that or do you have people working

orrin (28:29.86)
so probably if you look at my time i'm guessing about sixty percent is focused on the man and about ten to let's go say ten percent organic growth and probably fifteen to twenty percent on culture and then the rest is kind of depending on the month and depending on what's what's going on i deal with deal with some of our funding relationships which fits under the acquisitive growth

jon_stoddard (28:59.81)
yeah now you said when you're going up in the seven the more you're getting attracted to from capital are you just picking up the phone or are you actually going out and making presentations hey we seek this for our next acquisition

orrin (29:07.42)
yeah

orrin (29:15.28)
look if i look if i look back to early two thousand and one you know when we were raising money and for for a deal we had we we ended up speaking to a business that funded mark tarson's come back for i don't know if they told me that to scare me or whether but like the interest rate where john like i can't even remember the intrustras i think people got like a lone shock but basically but we were desperate at that time

jon_stoddard (29:42.79)
yeah

orrin (29:45.24)
and you we didn't take the money from them but now we have every time we've executed it's just gotten easier and easier we've also urownorgranic growth is just the numbers of escaladed we've made tough decisions cut costs where we had to and we're very good at communicating and being transparent so we have we have we have two keyfunders finding relationships right now that pretty much meet our ecquisitive growth requirements we have one other

jon_stoddard (30:13.73)
is that a dead or is that are they expecting some kind of equity accent some

orrin (30:16.34)
dat dat no we're doing we're doing primarily date right now some of it's a bit on the expensive side because we're not giving up equity but when you look at the number in our the numbers in our model and what we're doing it is i mean the r rs and the mice are i mean i only learned about mice over the last six months i'm proud to that's right that's right

jon_stoddard (30:40.71)
it's a by the way it's a multiple on invest the capital so this is like somebody coming in they look at her you know i give you a dollar now and i expect two dollars and five years a yeah

orrin (30:49.58)
that that we're only running those numbers on ourselves i mean we keep our some updated every single month even though we're not in process and we're not looking for we're actually not enterprises to find equity investors but we're just you know we appointed a guy called adam copy as an advisory board member you wrote the book called product

jon_stoddard (31:07.97)
who doesn't know adam coffee i used one of my first interviews on top and entrepreneurs

orrin (31:13.2)
he's such a late dyes such a go

jon_stoddard (31:15.01)
oh my god he's got two books out there like the best books of private equity in the world

orrin (31:21.68)
i've learned so much from him and you know you might not see because i mean he comes a lot with a lot of confidence and provide online and that that guy is so humble man you know i worked it him for the recruitment of our v p of corporate iveelopment literally within fifteen minutes that guy applies to emails he did all the interviews

jon_stoddard (31:30.95)
i to

jon_stoddard (31:42.71)
but he's running a don't know billion dollar corporation and he responds and he responds unlinked in really fast too

orrin (31:48.44)
no

now he's he's just epitomize servant leadership and i've learned a lot from him he's giving us a lot of guidance with our strategy and we bound steels off so he's guiding us he's guiding us all the way through the process so you that's that's been just an we did an offsihte with him and our leadership team up state in november last year came in and just kind of we spent a couple of days with him but we've got some he's one advisory board

member we have another advisory board member who built a really really susible business like ours in the u k also giving us great guidance so that external experience and advice is just man it's expect it's worth paying for john

jon_stoddard (32:33.79)
i mean sometimes it's like somebody that's yeah somebody that's been there before and especially built something twice this big like oh just do this this and this and you're like you sit back and go i've been banging my head against the wall trying to figure that one out

orrin (32:49.04)
no that's it and the other thing and it may be relates back to i think why we're being well received by potential businesses that we're looking to buy we're not arrogant we don't have all the answers every single man opportunity i've engaged in i've learned something from them every single one even if we didn't do it i learned something from them and i got out of my way to share what we're doing in the most transparent way possible so that hopefully they learned something from it too you know so i take this opportunity i'm keen to get into

i mean i've learned a ton from him i really have we had our marketing and we had our marketing teams get together and share how we generating leads they shared how they generating leads so we're not arrogant we don't have the answers so when we appoint an adviser like adam or whoever or like tim wallace where we're like sponge we're just learning

jon_stoddard (33:41.57)
i gotta tell you i recall that conversation with adam that was last year and he just said you know when we buy an h b a c company and they have a great best prose practice we just take that prex practice and cross polonade and all the other stuff

orrin (33:56.14)
yeah yeah now he's will class he's will class

jon_stoddard (33:59.81)
yeah so so what are you doing for deal flow you said you have abundant deal flow and i know look doing pod cast helps what else you're doing

orrin (34:03.54)
yeah let me

orrin (34:09.48)
so i've had to get a deal from podcast maybe this guy so look obviously being in the industry for a long time and that is definitely so industry relationships there's some stuff in our poplin that has just come from that then we have one barsad advisory relationship that we've had since twenty seventeen of the three deals we did in ten

jon_stoddard (34:14.51)
you're it's a proa it takes time

orrin (34:39.32)
to anyone who came through them okay that's another one we have investment banks approaching us all the time with potential deals and we have one particular investment bank that is the they gave us the deal that is in lor now nd then we have two other deals that we're really excited about and then there is a third there is a third not investment bank barsad advisory firm that i'd like to a point

and we haven't yet decided on that and it's complicated because we're very loyal in old school and you know how do you have two barsad advisory firms but

jon_stoddard (35:18.99)
yeah because there i mean you know adam coffee will tell you the same thing like look we in our market we know all four thousand h p a c companies right and we're always contacting them you know and i think he even sends both of his books to him so to all four thousand

orrin (35:28.14)
yeah yeah

orrin (35:33.9)
yeah i wouldn't be surprised i mean look in our case anyway twenty to thirty thousand so it's it's such a it's such a big market so those are the ways so so if i were bucketed into either investment banks or parade advisory one barket our own relationships and then our own outreach efforts so we're doing some we're doing some marketing different tactics there and then we're attending some key conferences but yes

jon_stoddard (35:40.97)
yeah

jon_stoddard (36:02.63)
yeah

orrin (36:03.64)
look if we continue with this momentum that we're on right now actually optimasely we're going to be able to hit our target before the end of this financial year and we will fill it up enough that it will force us to make really good decisions and i think today we've we've made really good decisions we're not falling in love with unrealistic opportunities

jon_stoddard (36:25.37)
yeah i've just got an idea for you that one of the guys i interviewed was did a roll up of thirty midisfranchises and he doesn't podcast it's beers with brian and then he goes to the midas trade shows and has his podcast at his booth and it has created a abundance of deal flow for him because everybody knows like when i'm ready i'm going to brian

orrin (36:42.44)
oh that's cool

orrin (36:51.02)
that's really cool though so it's his own podcast

jon_stoddard (36:54.59)
its own podcastyeah

orrin (36:56.48)
well that's cool i really like that thanks john i like that idea

jon_stoddard (36:57.97)
yeah just an idea

yeah well that's been fantastic man i love what you're doing here yeah an it's fantastic and i wish you the best of luck on this too

orrin (37:07.88)
thank you

orrin (37:12.84)
yeah thanks so much really enjoy the conversation and yeah appreciate that idea

jon_stoddard (37:19.47)
yeah good deal man thanks for being on the top man entrepenners podcast hold on one second

orrin (37:24.46)
awesome great stuff john